ROTJ CRL Updates

[JesterTDA]

I am weary of a specific color of fabric ("It MUST be Ladybug Red, PANTONE 1807") because trying to source that color in a velvet will be very tough. Even different bolts of the same color from the same manufacturer can be off. I actually think the color comment in the book is a great base point for color but even the person who dyed the fabric said she was working with a 40 watt bulb in a massive vat. I think as a whole we do a good job self regulating our robe colors and the helmets need to match the robes (taking into account various lighting and cameras). I've yet to see an approved guard in green, orange, or yellow so I'd say the color is fine. I added that bit just in as a side note I found interesting.

I'm going to disagree with saying definitively that ALL visors are red and ALL boots were red. Using screen captures and photoshop the visor's pixels are identified as black (or a variation of black) in many of the movie scenes. Of course this is mostly likely due to the fact the visors make up such a small portion of the screen and the processing makes it impossible to see. I will also say that I've yet to see a single on-screen image of what are on the Guard's feet. I'm sure LT has wanted to smack me on occasion but I contend that the actors could have been barefoot, wearing sneakers, or flip-flops, just as easily as they could have been wearing red boots. AOTC Guards are SEEN wearing black jack boots. ROTS are SEEN wearing red pointed boots. But you never see ROTJ boots which is why we've gone either way. The only "OFFICIAL" red pointed boots I see are in the costume book worn by the mannequin and if that's the basis on the decision then all robes must ALSO be very flowy like I described in my original post and all gloves MUST be leather. I don't think we want to go that route.

If/when any changes are implemented I'm afraid we shouldn't be super concerned with current robe makers like FP. They'd have to adapt. I think anybody who suggests Guards are the "cheap way into the 501st" are fooling themselves. Guards might be one of the easiest, but not cheapest. That's not a bad thing in my opinion, honestly our costumes aren't made up of a lot of components. Once you get the helmets it's a matter of needle and thread for everything else (remember weapons aren't required for approval). But all of that is a distraction. I'm glad to see people agree that flat robes aren't ideal and we should move to improve that if possible.

[V-cell]

Hello DarkFather,

Please continue your work based on the existing CRL. If any change were to occur, there will be plenty of lead time before these get enacted and a date that would allow both existing members and future members enough time to adopt the measure. We are at a stage of discussion, and your perspective is yet another that needs to be taken into account, as these changes can have multiple ripple effects, that we would like to minimize. I do not foresee any major change to our current CRL that would be enforced in the next three months.

CRLs take time to process, so rest assured that if you get caught in the transition period, your kit will be approved based on the CRL that was active when you first started. I would recommend; however, that if you can communicate with your seamstress and she hasn't started work on your robes, to let her know you would like the robes to flow in an arc, as shown in Jester's picture.

Hope this helps.

[LuciousTalvloinne]

Communication is the best allie on this discussion.

[Sascha_Wilsing]

So we all agree on the Point that FP Robes are no longer acceptable due to the fact they are flat.
So we have to Change the CRL to the Point that says Robes have to be wavy.
IMO i think the exact spelling should be done by a natural english speaking Person.

As we are going to make this enhancement to the CRL should the descrition of the Visor changed too ?
And will be red boots now a must have or still be optional ?

[LuciousTalvloinne]

Wondering if we can reach out to them to help update their costume standards. As other vendors have done this to keep with the standards of the 501st.

As the CRL Reads now for the helmet.

Finished in a crimson gloss to match the outer robes.
The visor is fitted with a red or smoke tinted visor that allows for maximum visibility while obscuring the wearers features.

As the CRL Reads now for the boots.

Black, texture-less, leather/synthetic leather (non glossy) “Jack” boots", squared toe (rounded toe in ladies styles are acceptable), with a relatively conservative heel, no visible straps/buckles, or ornamental stitching; that reach high enough to cover the wearer's ankles are acceptable as a minimum due to the difficulty in acquiring red boots.
**OPTIONAL** Crimson red suede boots, pointed toe, with a relatively conservative heel. There are no visible straps, buckles, or ornamental stitching. The boots cover the wearer's ankles.


In my opinion I like to see the visors go to a red with them being either the way they are in the movie or Red Mirrored as with what a lot of folks have been moving to to stay with the red feel but hide their eyes in the trooping aspect.

As for boots. When the CRL was written back in 2008 we didn't have the vendor access that we do today for the suede red boots. I like to see this switched to where optional Black boots if the red suede can not be found.

[bdgr]

I think the visor description in the current CRL should be kept the same and should make no specific mention of red mirrored lens. I know a lot of folks have them and it looks cool, but they are never seen on or off screen. They are also in my opinion too noticeable when a guard with red or dark visor stands next to another guard with the red mirror. A Stormtrooper or Sandtrooper wouldn't be allowed to wear green mirrored lens. Sure it would be cool and it is "greenish" in color, but not accurate. Just my 2 cents.

[JesterTDA]

I'm all for the changes, specifically to the robes, but I think we have to be careful with the timing. Whatever changes occur need to have a grace period of a few months so member who are currently working on costumes have time to be grandfathered. I'd say Sept 1st would be enough time. All Garrisons would need to be informed. I know when the FX helmets stopped being approved our Garrison communicated with all of our recruits (and current members thinking about starting a TK) of the changes and the deadlines. Communication should be key.

My feelings on the boots are more mixed since they are never seen on film. Again we're dealing with mere seconds of footage so while I understand what the prop department may have had it's not seen. Therefor I'm okay with recommending the red suede boots, and at a minimum the black Jack boot wording we have.

The visors I think we can stay with what we have as we think they're red, and that's what the prop department shows but again, screen grabs and photo manipulations have shown that the visors are either red or black. While I agree that the mirrored visors are awesome, they're simply never seen on screen. While it's hard to prove a negative with the limited screen time the characters have, what we can tell is that they're not mirrored.

[Cabbagefarmer]

Well done proposal, I sign that. My main concern is that the FP robe how it ´s right now, is not approvable anymore. For builts based on the flat robe must apply the same. A grace time like JesterTDA propose is a very fair option, I´m fine with that and the date Sept 1st.
A proposal should be posted on the board by the CS and mailed to the garrison GMO´s.

I'm all for the changes, specifically to the robes, but I think we have to be careful with the timing. Whatever changes occur need to have a grace period of a few months so member who are currently working on costumes have time to be grandfathered. I'd say Sept 1st would be enough time. All Garrisons would need to be informed. I know when the FX helmets stopped being approved our Garrison communicated with all of our recruits (and current members thinking about starting a TK) of the changes and the deadlines. Communication should be key.

My feelings on the boots are more mixed since they are never seen on film. Again we're dealing with mere seconds of footage so while I understand what the prop department may have had it's not seen. Therefor I'm okay with recommending the red suede boots, and at a minimum the black Jack boot wording we have.

The visors I think we can stay with what we have as we think they're red, and that's what the prop department shows but again, screen grabs and photo manipulations have shown that the visors are either red or black. While I agree that the mirrored visors are awesome, they're simply never seen on screen. While it's hard to prove a negative with the limited screen time the characters have, what we can tell is that they're not mirrored.

[JesterTDA]

Costumes approved under the old CRLs are always grandfathered in for the person who was approved. This means that these changes go through as we propose I can continue to troop in a fully approved FP set of robes since that is what I was approved under. If I sell my robes to another user after the CRL changes and no modifications are done so the robes are still flat, that new costume would NOT be approved.

[LuciousTalvloinne]

This goes back to gmls listening also. To this date I still see costumes being approved that shouldn't have been. What's your thought on this bgr? Also with mirrored it hides the costumers face. So all threw wouldn't bother me. As being acceptable.