Discussion: Soft Parts

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andyman97
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Re: Discussion: Soft Parts

Post by andyman97 »

Here's a section of proposed text I wrote up for the soft parts based on my observations.

Undersuit:
Either a one or two piece, long-sleeved garment and is a dark maroon or burgundy
-if the undersuit is a two piece garment, it appears to be a single garment when worn
Made from a cotton or cotton blend fabric and is moderately form fitted to the wearer but not tight fitting
A mandarin collar with a closure covers the wearer's neck

Balaclava:
A black (or red?) balaclava is worn and covers the wearer's neck and head

Skirts and Cape:
Made from a red suede or velvet-like semi-reflective material that is similar in color to the armor
Near floor length and double sided, the right sides of the fabric face outward
Vertical edges of the panels are top stitched approximately 1/8" from the edge
Bottom edges of the panels are folded and do not have any exterior stitching
Skirts consist of a front and a rear panel that wrap fully around the costumer with the front panel overlapping the rear
-Top of skirts rest underneath the abdominal armor
Cape is a single panel that is attached between the rear abdominal armor and the back armor

RedLightning
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Re: Discussion: Soft Parts

Post by RedLightning »

I just skimmed it and it seems reasonable, Im about to go get busy on a job and Ill have a chance to take a more reflective look later today.

Question on the balaclava, are we looking for a color match, or any generic red ?

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andyman97
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Re: Discussion: Soft Parts

Post by andyman97 »

My take on it is that it's there to hide skin so it should be as inconspicuous as possible. There are no references to show exactly what color it is. It seems most reasonable to me to allow for it to be black so there's really no contrast or to allow for red to match the helmet. Keep in mind these are going to be polyester for moisture wicking properties so it may not be a very easy feat to get an exacting match to a paint or fabric. That's another reason why I think black makes the most sense.

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Shikkakku
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Re: Discussion: Soft Parts

Post by Shikkakku »

Balaclava: I would think generic red. We could even allow for black (unless directly contradicted by new references) since it won't matter anyways as the helmet is fully enclosed.

Skirts: Screenshots actually show that there is a 4th panel at the back, beneath the cape. See screenshots below:
Image
Image (1 = cape, 2 = back panel 3 = left side panel)
Image

Also a distinct difference from the TLJ-PG skirt: TLJ-PG skirt has the sides overlapping the front, while M-PG skirts have the front overlapping the sides. See the promo shot and this screenshot
Image

Funny enough, we also know they are kept together via black velcro as we get some of the skirts coming undone during the Episode 8 final fight choreo :lol:
Image

CRL text-wise, I agree with undersuit and balaclava. I would suggest the following changes to skirt text (comments in red) :
andyman97 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:29 pm
Skirts and Cape:
Made from a red suede or velvet-like semi-reflective material that is similar in color to the armor
Near floor length and double sided, the right sides of the fabric face outward
Vertical edges of the panels are top stitched approximately 1/8" from the edge
Bottom edges of the panels are folded and do not have any exterior stitching
(Do we know this for sure, or should we just keep it as "no exterior stitching?" Would it matter if the skirts are folded vs. seamed from 2 pieces of fabric at the bottom?)
Skirts consist of a front and a rear panel that wrap fully around the costumer with the front panel overlapping the rear
(suggest combining with TLJ-PG language "The skirt is comprised of 4 rectangular panels, front, rear and sides and wrap around the costumer")
-Top of skirts rest underneath the abdominal armor
(add bullet point: "- Front skirt panel slightly overlaps the side skirt panels near the top")
Cape is a single panel that is attached between the rear abdominal armor and the back armor "and is similar in construction to the skirt panels"
Image

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andyman97
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Re: Discussion: Soft Parts

Post by andyman97 »

It's hard to make out from your photos but when I was writing this up I was noticing that the different guards seem to have different placement for the edges of the front skirt. Looking again at the promo picture you can also see that the middle guard front runs back behind the tasset armor where the side guards seem to stop short. I wonder if they may have a different numbers of panels...

As for the stitch details on the skirts, I pulled that from TLJ praetorian CRL but it's nothing that I've been able to actually confirm. I think the issue with a seamed edge on the bottom is going to be the added bulk without a top stitch.

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andyman97
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Re: Discussion: Soft Parts

Post by andyman97 »

I pulled these up on my laptop and looked over all of the references closer and I have to agree, they do seem to have 4 panels. Though the front seems to overlap the sides in different locations, I wonder if it's just suit up/shifting so maybe giving that range in the text would make the most sense?
Skirts and Cape:
Made from a red suede or velvet-like semi-reflective material that is similar in color to the armor
Near floor length and double sided, the right sides of the fabric face outward
Vertical edges of the panels are top stitched approximately 1/8" from the edge
Bottom edges of the panels are folded and do not have any exterior stitching
(Do we know this for sure, or should we just keep it as "no exterior stitching?" Would it matter if the skirts are folded vs. seamed from 2 pieces of fabric at the bottom?)
The skirt is comprised of 4 rectangular panels, front, rear and sides and wrap around the costumer
-Top of skirts rest underneath the abdominal armor
- Front skirt panel slightly overlaps the side skirt panels near the top (suggest adding text "just before to just after the hip/tasset armor" to indicate a specified range as to how wide the front skirt should be/where the overlap is located)
Cape is a single panel that is attached between the rear abdominal armor and the back armor and is similar in construction to the skirt panels
So I agree with edits, the only thing that still seems to be looming is the stitching details - as reasons I mentioned above (bulk at the seam on the bottom - it could easily just be left out) and adding in a section to specify where the front overlap location is if that is even really necessary, ie: we probably don't want a front skirt that's super wide or super narrow.

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Re: Discussion: Soft Parts

Post by Shikkakku »

andyman97 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:09 pm I pulled these up on my laptop and looked over all of the references closer and I have to agree, they do seem to have 4 panels. Though the front seems to overlap the sides in different locations, I wonder if it's just suit up/shifting so maybe giving that range in the text would make the most sense?
I think its either shifting from action, differences in body type between actors and preferences on how to wear, or a combination thereof. I don't see an issue with defining where the overlap is, in the end its to assist the costumer in making the costume match screen refs and the final judge will be direct comparison to screen.
Image

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andyman97
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Re: Discussion: Soft Parts

Post by andyman97 »

Another one I think we can put to bed with references from Gallery are black for the balaclava and maroon for the suit.

Undersuit:
Either a one or two piece, long-sleeved garment and is dark maroon in color
-if the undersuit is a two piece garment, it appears to be a single garment when worn
Made from a cotton or cotton blend fabric and is moderately form fitted to the wearer but not tight fitting
A mandarin collar with a closure covers the wearer's neck

Balaclava:
A black balaclava is worn and covers the wearer's neck and head

Skirts and Cape:
Made from a red suede or velvet-like semi-reflective material that is similar in color to the armor
Near floor length and double sided, the right sides of the fabric face outward
Vertical edges of the panels are top stitched approximately 1/8" from the edge
Bottom edges of the panels are folded and do not have any exterior stitching
(Do we know this for sure, or should we just keep it as "no exterior stitching?" Would it matter if the skirts are folded vs. seamed from 2 pieces of fabric at the bottom?)
The skirt is comprised of 4 rectangular panels, front, rear and sides and wrap around the costumer
-Top of skirts rest underneath the abdominal armor
- Front skirt panel slightly overlaps the side skirt panels near the top (suggest adding text "just before to just after the hip/tasset armor" to indicate a specified range as to how wide the front skirt should be/where the overlap is located)
Cape is a single panel that is attached between the rear abdominal armor and the back armor and is (remove - similar in) (add -the same) construction as the skirt panels

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Shikkakku
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Re: Discussion: Soft Parts

Post by Shikkakku »

andyman97 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 2:27 pm Another one I think we can put to bed with references from Gallery are black for the balaclava and maroon for the suit.

Undersuit:
Either a one or two piece, long-sleeved garment and is dark maroon in color
-if the undersuit is a two piece garment, it appears to be a single garment when worn
Made from a cotton or cotton blend fabric and is moderately form fitted to the wearer but not tight fitting
A mandarin collar with a closure covers the wearer's neck

Balaclava:
A black balaclava is worn and covers the wearer's neck and head

Skirts and Cape:
Made from a red suede or velvet-like semi-reflective material that is similar in color to the armor
Near floor length and double sided, the right sides of the fabric face outward
Vertical edges of the panels are top stitched approximately 1/8" from the edge
Bottom edges of the panels are folded and do not have any exterior stitching
(Do we know this for sure, or should we just keep it as "no exterior stitching?" Would it matter if the skirts are folded vs. seamed from 2 pieces of fabric at the bottom?)
The skirt is comprised of 4 rectangular panels, front, rear and sides and wrap around the costumer
-Top of skirts rest underneath the abdominal armor
- Front skirt panel slightly overlaps the side skirt panels near the top (suggest adding text "just before to just after the hip/tasset armor" to indicate a specified range as to how wide the front skirt should be/where the overlap is located)
Cape is a single panel that is attached between the rear abdominal armor and the back armor and is (remove - similar in) (add -the same) construction as the skirt panels
I agree with undersuit and balaclava.

Skirts and Cape:
If you look at the BTS action shots, the skirt and cape really looks like they are single layered only and not doubled up. In addition I don't see any sort of stitching or seaming anywhere...
Image
Image

Thus I dont think we can include both aspects in CRL. Andy, you have a bolt of suede- will it fray if you just cut it without any sort of stitching to keep it?
Image

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andyman97
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Re: Discussion: Soft Parts

Post by andyman97 »

We talked about this offline but yes, there is some fraying, especially cutting at an angle, BUT... there are ways to combat this.

There are products out there that you can use on raw edges to prevent fraying that are permanent. Fray check and hem tape are a few options. Fray check can be lightly applied to the edge of the fabric once it's been cut and it prevents any threads from fraying away. Hem tape can be used to fold an edge over then you iron it like a hem without a need for stitching. This is a "semi-pemanent" solution and ymmv. Personally, I like the idea of fray check better as you won't ever have to worry about the hem coming loose.

Here's a 4" piece of microsuede that I applied fray check to for reference. I've used this stuff for a long time and never had an issue with fraying. My advice to anyone using it is to go easy. It does stiffen up the fabric and a little goes a long way.

Image

For updated text on skirts/cape:

Skirts and Cape:
  • Made from a red suede or velvet-like, semi-reflective material that is similar in color to the armor
  • Near floor length and single layered, the right side of the fabric faces outward
  • Vertical and bottom edges of the panels are either all raw or all folded
    -If the edge is raw, it must be free of any fraying
    -if the edge is folded, it may have a top stitch approximately 1/8" from the edge
  • The skirt is comprised of 4 rectangular panels; front, rear and two sides that wrap around the costumer's lower body
    -Top of skirts rest underneath the abdominal armor
    -Front and rear skirt panels slightly overlap the side skirt panels near the top (and down the length?)
  • The cape is attached between the rear abdominal armor and the back armor


I did some tweaking throughout this portion so it made more sense. The only real question I have at this point is the bottom of the skirt. When standing completely still, should the front/back panels overlap the sides, like a flare style? I was talking with a friend last night about construction/cut and these seem to be very similar to Hakama style skirts which do flare out a bit and would overlap along the length.

Here's a layout for a Hakama skirt. The red lines represent the front/back and the green represent the sides. I think this is a pretty close translation to what I would be doing with my skirts. The cape would essentially mirror front/back but would be longer.

Image

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