The Royal Guard ROTJ is "The Grandfather“ of all following Guards and seen first on OT Episode 6. For that reason alone, we have to discuss and put our knowledge together to figure out the new CRLs which fits and represent this costume as good as possible.
Besides that we have to do this for all kinds of costumes represented by our detachment. But the ROTJ Royal Guard “in my opinion†is our flagship.
To become more movie accurate, we have to consider all facts we already know and go through all screen shots or any other references we can get/find.
I went through the posts, step by step, to give my 2 cents. First regarding the “Star Wars Costumes The Original Trilogy†book. I assume that the facts that are shown, are concept arts and not really used on the movie.
The pic JesterTDA posted at the first post shows a costume draped over a shop-window mannequin. Those mannequins always suppose to be very thin. The robe that is shown is draped as good as possible to illustrate the outer robe. “Guessing†for that reason they fixed the outer robe with some kind of seamstress needles. JesterTDA's proposal, and I quote: “As you can see, it appears that the fabric from the left has been pulled loosely across the body, over the right shoulder, and pinned behind the right shoulder blade (though there is no picture of this). “ might be a very good interpretation. I think it is just draped to fit the shop- window mannequin. I also think they draped the original costumes to fit the different actors as they only did a few costume requisites for that character. A side note for clearance, it´s the same effect like we have for the Officer costumes. They only had a few costume requisites done and those had to fit several actors with different body measurements, so we have the seams on the officer´s jackets.
When I started my Royal Guard, I was inexperienced about the costume. I ordered a FP robe and from the first day I got it I was impatient with it. The flat robe looks like a sack and the fabrics are worth the money. I started to blue-pencil my outer and inner robe to find a respectable way to present the ROTJ Guard. It took me about two years and two new outer and inner robes to find good fabrics and sewing patterns to get satisfied. We created a nice falling backside and even worked out how to do the waves on the front side. That was simple, as JesterTDA already mentioned, maybe it was fixed behind the shoulder, we had to drape it and fix it and then you have your wave. The wave disappears after the first move you do. For me it´s comprehensible that they draped the Guards in the movies for the scenes. The guard characters did not have a use for moving scenes on Episode 6. As you can compare with the blue Senate Guards at Episode 1 “the phantom menace†they walk and have a flat front side robe without waves.
Next point: the gloves. Made of the same fabric of the inner robe OR after all “leather†fabrics. At the moment a point to go by conjectures. I would say they used "maybe“ leather gloves that matched the inner robe as good as possible. We have to think back in the 80's, what was available there? BUT for changing and to revise the CRLs I suggest to use the inner robe fabric for the gloves. The only way at the moment to match the colors as good as possible to present the costume.
For that reason to compare gloves I was able to do my own custom made gloves done from “goats velour leather†in a burgundy colour. That ´s an amazing material for gloves.
The final point to JesterTDA post about the colors. We will always have the mess with different lightning conditions and how it affects the Red of the robes and helemt. So every robe supposed to look different. To find a consistent red color around the world to recommend to our fellow guards is nearly impossible by now. I would recommendo to have an open discussion regarding red color/shade variants available.
Coming to the visors as it´s one topic on that discussion. To be movie accurate we have to use red visors and the face/eyes of the wearer has to be seen. Like we can confirm with movie shots and clearly seen on the deleted scenes.
It´s true you go crazy while trooping with red visors. I can change my visors as I use Velcro fastener to fix it inside the bucket. One option could be: to use for canon events red visors are required (except grandfathered costumes, a change is up to the decision of each member) and black ones are optional.
How to change and when to start a change to the current CRLs???
My “onlyâ€personal suggestions are:
The bucket has to match the color of the the outer robe as good as possible. The visor has to be red and you can see the eyes of the wearer.
Optional black visors.
No flat outer robes are approvable (timeline to start, we have to figure out separately) means to Robes like the current FP are NOT approvable anymore. They do robes since years without changing the patterns. They do not match the robes seen at the movie. A Royal Guard costume must not be a supposed “cheap†way to join the ranks of 501st Legion. (We â€the 510st†do have Gateway costumes like Crew Members or Tie Reserve Pilots)
The inner robe is a thawb style cloth like supposed at the current crls. A point we don´t have to care about to much as it´s never “really†seen and the best option so far.
The gloves have to match the color of the inner robe and suggested done by the same material. Leather gloves are optional and must match the color of the inner robe as good as possible. NO smooth leather acceptable.
For boots, no option to wear black boots as an alternative. Only option. Quote current CRLs: â€Crimson red suede boots, pointed toe, with a relatively conservative heel. There are no visible straps, buckles, or ornamental stitching. The boots cover the wearer's ankles.â€
Delete all Level suggestions as they are only confusing some people. A point Stephen already mentioned on his post.
I also reject all level programs like done for TKs, Officers, Sith Lords….for the reason that´s not necessary for our kind of costume. We don´t have a special strap or a small seam to point out for that. Goal has to be to have a clear pointed out CRL to have the optimum build guideline of the costume.
When to start a change? After a well realized research. Next the current CS could post an essay about and a poll is one option to decide about.
I agree with that proposal by JesterTDA
JesterTDA wrote:I do think a lot of what goes into a costume (any costume really) is the reality of what we see vs what we think we see. Everybody thinks Vader is solid black until they really look and notice that he's also a grey/silver. Nobody notices the straps holding TK armor together in a movie until they look for it and see it. That's what I think of when it comes to the visor. Everybody thinks it's black until you look at it in a movie set lighting and see that it's in fact red, and fairly see-through. From a personal trooping perspective, I perfer the black. I've done 3 years with red and I hated it. I missed out on so many things ("Did you see that kid in the yellow shirt? He was a huge fan!" "No, I saw lots of people in pink shirts though.") and got headaches from seeing everything in red.
I agree that different robes sit on people differently. From what was said in the OT Costume book everything was sewn by a single person but clearly they weren't custom fitted to each wearer. I'll buy that. I'll also agree that there may be a few instances when the robes appear flatter but even the flat ones have fabric ridges which most of our FP robes don't.
Perhaps a change in the CRLs to strongly suggest the flow in the robes, with a minimum of flatness would be a good way to go about it. In an ideal world FP (the main supplier of stock robes) would be able to fix the problem simply by sewing it that way, but I don't think that'll work until we put that in as the suggestion. I do think there is stronger evidence on the leather gloves, which V-Cell pointed out.
and that´s a good point by JesterTDA:
JesterTDA wrote:The idea of what happens to current members if the CRL changes isn't a big deal. It's happening right now with FX helmets for TKs. At a day in the near future (could be any day now) new costumes submitted with FX buckets will no longer be accepted but this doesn't hurt previous acceptances. That's why there is grandfathering of already approved costumes. If everybody agreed (not sure how it's really done, poll perhaps?) that ROTJ robes need to not be flat at the very least then there would be some future date and everybody would be notified. For example, "Starting November 1st, 2015, all ROTJ costumes can not have a flat appearance. If you're currently working on a ROTJ costume please work with your GML to be grandfathered in, after November 1st no flat robes would be allowed." Starting Nov 1st when someone joins the boards and says, "I was thinking about buying some FP robes what do you think?" We'd be able to respond with, "They were accepted but now they're only allowed for previously approved costumes."